DEBUNKING ZETATALK, HAVE THEY EVER SUCCEEDED?

What is the basis of the many debunking campaigns against ZetaTalk?
It's a complex issue, but primarily it is either a professional campaign to discredit a message the establishment does not want the public to consider, or fear, on the part of the recipient, who fears a scary message.

ZetaTalk: ZetaTalk Reactions, written Jul 15, 1997.

Reactions to ZetaTalk vary:
* astonishment at the correlation's to personal experiences or what the reader takes to be intuitive knowledge
* a conclusion that a group of people, not a single woman, must be writing ZetaTalk
* a suspicion that the entire work is an elaborate ruse or joke, but with nagging doubts due to personal corollaries with truth that are encountered while perusing the work
* a suspicion that ZetaTalk is a front for the government, especially after reading our rather open admissions about our relationship with MJ12
* a deep feeling of unease, especially if the reader is religious and has encountered our statements on organized religion
* shock, if the reader is versed in one or more of the sciences and encounters not only a grasp of their specialty but answers that resolve puzzles that dumbfound human scientists
* jealousy, if the reader has ambitions to have a popular web site and an avid readership, but has been ignored
* confusion as to why we, the Zetas, would select an unknown middle aged woman to be our emissary.
In all cases, the conclusions stem as much from the mind and orientation of the reader as they do from ZetaTalk itself.

Given that the ZetaTalk message is scary, many attack the message simply to silence it, especially as the Earth changes ramp up and are all along the lines predicted by the Zetas, there are many who want to silence the message.
There are, in short, many ZetaTalk enemies.

ZetaTalk: ZetaTalk Enemies, written Aug 15, 1996.

Our message is not popular. We are effective in debate, which offends the stuffy elite of the scientific establishment who think of themselves as holding the key to knowledge. We abhor scams, especially when the scam is not innocent and will harm millions of innocents, including the children. Since our emissary, Nancy, is being protected in ways it would be unwise to divulge, those lying to mankind on the Usenets find themselves with an adversary they cannot silence! This enrages them. Then there are those who are frightened by the thought that man is not alone in the Universe as an intelligent species. They target our postings with their hysterical denial. Then there are those in the establishment who know we exist but want the populace in general to cling to them and continue to look to them as leaders. They do not want anyone reading our message with an open mind, or even reading it at all, and do their best to throw mud and distractions in the path of open discussion and debate.

Thus, where we and our emissary, Nancy, are heartened by the progress mankind makes, only a fool would fail to guard against sabotage as much as possible. What sabotage, you might ask? If our enemies and those who would silence us cannot do so by killing or maiming or intimidating Nancy, then what avenues might be open to them? Were it not for the copyright laws, and her legal recourse, ZetaTalk would be posted everywhere, but would not be our words. Do you not think that such takeovers of established communication channels occur? This is, in fact, a favorite ploy. Not only do written works get stolen from authors and patented ideas virtually stolen from inventors, when a communicator has a wide audience, as ZetaTalk does, all manner of attempts are made to bribe or threaten the communicator to send out a different message.

Beyond enemies in the establishment, who wish the message to be distorted, there are those simply uncomfortable with the message.

ZetaTalk: Attack the Messenger, written Apr 19, 2003

Those who attack the messenger because the message is uncomfortable are in fact making an understandable, though primitive, response. The mosquito stings so you slap the mosquito, the apple is sour so you fling it into the bushes, someone reeks of body odor while attempting to kiss you and you give them a shove. Push it away, the child's first response to something offending, with no further thought about repercussions. Adults, in human society, are supposed to be logical, entertain facts, digest, discuss, and conclude. They most often do none of this, but simply react, as a child, to the offending substance of message, rejecting it. These are not leaders of men, as this type of reaction makes them scarcely suitable for any life but swinging from trees, but as Internet access is granted to anyone, they write email and post their simplistic reactions on message board. "Go away, you're crazy, I don't want to hear it", they cry, and when the shift occurs will be found huddled in some corner making these demands still.

The major reason ZetaTalk is attacked by the establishment is the message it is delivering about the pending pole shift.
The establishment simply doesn't want you to realize this is coming, until the last minute.
They don't want your messy panic, the demands by the taxpayer to be taken care of in the bunkers those in government have already arranged for themselves.
They want the message suppressed!
For the establishment, ZetaTalk is an impossible message.

ZetaTalk: Impossible Message, written Apr 15, 1997.

As the passage of Planet X approaches, many in the establishment will be torn. If they do give out a warning, just what would that warning be? At the point where many feel they know what will happen and when, what will those members of the establishment in anguish over their past silence do? They will dither and argue among themselves, until the final weeks, for the following reasons: Various plans to harbor and protect the populace will constantly be under discussion and even quietly implemented. Emptying the cities into tents, feeding them temporarily on stores of soybeans and grain, and commanding armies of surviving citizens in rebuilding new cities. One does not want to issue a warning unless a solution can be muttered in the next breath, and the solution will never be agreed upon or feasible. Plans to harbor and protect the populace require a functioning society for the plans to become an actuality. Thus, as issuing a warning will cause panic and disruption, the establishment will invariably choose to delay the warning, especially as their plans to harbor and protect the populace will never become firm.

The size of any rescue operation is beyond the capacity of governments, a fact they readily admit to themselves. With increasing crop failures, even the stores during times of plenty will become depleted. If the welfare class has become an impossible burden in the US and the homeless die on the streets, how will the government sustain the whole populace for even a few short weeks? The panic that would ensue from a general announcement of the forthcoming cataclysms would in and of itself be deemed a disaster to avoid. Beyond the concerns of the banking industry, which would collapse due to lack of confidence in the continuing worth of many assets, and beyond the concerns of industry which requires the faithful attendance of its employees in order to function, there is concern about possible looting, suicides, mass migration of peoples, and never-ending demands that the government do something.

So these are some of the many REASONS for an attempt to debunk ZetaTalk.

Converse of Human Understanding

Much of the attempted debunking of ZetaTalk has at its base the fact that ZetaTalk describes physics in terms other than the current human understanding.
The Flat Earth Society still lives, in other words.
Even if human understanding is evolving, and what is being taught in schools is no longer the theory held by cutting edge scientists, the current theory taught in schools is clung to like a religion.

In 1997 and up until the Spring of 2003, the Zetas engaged in long running debates on the sci.astro Usenet.
The arguments against the Zeta explanation for the trajectory of Planet X, the Tunguska explosion, the Earth's shifting crust as the cause of wandering poles, and many other issues arose at the start.
Here, for instance, an argument with SteveC on how fast a traveling rogue planet can go, in space.

Article: <5dvfl9$qiu@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 13 Feb 1997

STEVEC: ALL objects obey the same laws of Physics. If your planet is coming within 6 years it must be within 50 AU.

ZETAS: Pardon? And what law of physics is that? A speed limit? A speed limit out in space, where there is so little matter about that friction does not become a problem. What holds back the speed of an object out there, pray tell? Wind resistance? The inability of the wheels to turn that fast, else the lubrication will start on fire and cause a wheel lock? Pistons going through the roof of the planets when the engaged motor pumps that fast? Flow of the fuel from a pump going at its maximum rate limiting the combustion in the motor? What factors limit the speed of an object in space? What experience do you have with any of these matters? NASA putting their little probes up there with such a finite amount of fuel that they haggle for hours whenever the need arises to use a tiny puff of it? Get real! Think! Or at least return with something akin to an argument to support your silly statement!

 

Article: <5e24bb$n6d@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 14 Feb 1997 16:36:59 GMT

STEVEC: If it is moving too slow it would be forced into a closer orbit. If it was moving too fast it would leave the solar system. You made the claim on how many years it takes for your Planet X to orbit the sun. It is then easy to calculate the potential orbits for your planet.

ZETAS: What a know it all! The way this child talks, you'd think that human science wasn't learning anything new these days, was experiencing no surprises, wasn't learning from their probes new information that they were formerly unaware of, wasn't locating planets with long elliptical orbits in solar systems just recently seen by the Hubble, hadn't changed their base assumptions on how matter and energy relate within the last 50 years due to that upstart Einstein's impetuousness. Tisk. Posting from school and with a completely closed mind.

This same argument with Lamont.
Note that the Zetas use a different tone with Lamont, who is deliberately trying to confuse the issue, than they did with SteveC, who was just being rigid.

Article: <5ehr7q$krq@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 20 Feb 1997

LAMONT: Nothing that is gravitationally bound to our solar system and is due at the Earth's orbit in 6 years can be further away than 18.7 AU.

ZETAS: Based on what? Your human understanding of how gravity works? You can't even explain why a comet would logically form the mirror part of a large ellipse, while out in space where you can't observe it, yet this is one of your so-called laws! Flies in the face of logic but you teach it to your young! We agree with none of your calculations, nor do we support your acting as a spokesperson on the behavior of Planet X. Your motives are to disinform, not assist, and this should be clear to anyone who has read your prior postings on this matter.

Another issue of physics addressed early on was the shifting crust theory, that THIS was the reason for wandering poles and climate change in the past.
Not taught in schools, so just not possible, per rigid minds, as Greg asserts.

Article: <5e58ql$9ht@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 15 Feb 1997 21:11:49 GMT

GREG: The Zetas say this the actual shift takes place during the better part of an hour. History tells us this too. In the written words of the many people around the world a moments consideration would make it completely obvious that the forces required to so move the enormous mass of the Earth's crust in a one hour time frame would completely reduce the crust to a molten state.

ZETAS: What forces are you thinking about, Greg? Your little earth moving equipment, where you push around piles of dirt, rearranging the landscape to your liking? What forces do you think created the cliffs at Yosemite, where solid rock a mile deep was snapped. What forces do you suppose tore the continents apart? Gentle little Richter Scale 9 earthquakes, a jiggle here and a jiggle there? This tears rock and piles mountain high? Plants survive as they are rooted and their seeds are everywhere, and animal including man survive because they travel with the moving plates of the Earth and experience no more severe a shock when the plates stop moving than they would during a Richter 9 earthquake. Where mountain building occurs when the plates stop moving, the stoppage is not simply a sudden jolt, like a car hitting a brick wall. All is in motion, and the stoppage is more like a car hitting a barrier of sand filled plastic barrels - a series of small jolts, occurring in quick succession.

I, Nancy, then got into quoting Velikovsky during the discussion with Greg.

Article: <5efais$9g7@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 1997 16:43:08 GMT

NANCY: If the crust stays put, then how did evidence of equatorial and polar climates get mixed in, in the same time period as the mixed magnetic pointing of the lava beds? Its clearly the crust that moves!

GREG: You seem to be confusing your time periods here, Nance. Continental plate movements occur on a much longer timescale than magnetic pole reversals, and much, much longer than basic climatic changes like ice ages.

NANCY: I again quote the studies reported by Velikovsky. The plants found in association with coal seams in Antartica and Spitsburg, Norway are with us today! Not plants from millions of years ago. Evolution-wise, they are todays flora.

Earth in Upheaval, pp 111 & 46 & 44, Shifting Poles
All other theories of the origin of the Ice Age having failed, there remained an avenue of approach which already early in the discussion was chosen by several geologists: a shift in the terrestrial poles. If for some reason the poles had moved, old polar ice would have moved out of the Arctic and Antarctic circles and into new regions. The glacial cover of the Ice Age could have been the polar icecap of an earlier epoch. The continent of Antarctica is larger than Europe. It has not a single tree, not a single bush, not a single blade of grass. Very few fungi have been found. Storms of great velocity circle the Antarctic most of the year. E.H. Shackleton, during his expedition to Antarctica in 1907 found fossil wood in the sandstone. Then he discovered 7 seams of coal. The seams are each between 3 and 7 feet thick. Associated with the coal is sandstone containing coniferous wood.

Spitsbergen in the Arctic Ocean is as far north from Oslo in Norway as Oslo is from Naples. Heer identified 136 species of fossil plants from Spitsbergen. Among the plants were pines, firs, spruces, and cypresses, also elms, hazels, and water lilies. At the northernmost tip of Spitsbergen Archipelago, a bed of black and lustrous coal 25 to 30 feet thick was found. (Spitsbergen) is buried in darkness for half the year and is now almost continuously buried under snow and ice. At some time in the remote past corals grew and are still found on the entire fringe of polar North America - in Alaska, Canada, and Greenland. In later times fig palms bloomed within the Arctic Circle.

This discussion attracted a notary, Jim Scotti, an astronomer working at the University of Tucson where the Pope Scope resides.

Article: <5e7udt$388@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 16 Feb 1997 21:32:45 GMT

JIM: The scientific studies Velikovsky quotes aren't nonsense - just his interpretation of them. ..

NANCY: I note you avoided this one altogether, Jim. Your explaination for these scientific studies?

Earth in Upheaval, pp 181-183, Dropped Ocean Level

R.A. Daly observed that in a great many places all around the world there is a uniform emergence of the shore line of 18 to 20 feet. In the southwest Pacific, on the islands belonging to the Samoan group but spread over two hundred miles, the same emergence is evident. Nearly halfway around the world, at St. Helena in the South Atlantic, the lava is punctuated by dry sea caves, the floors of which are covered with water-worn pebbles, now dusty because untouched by the surf. The emergence there is also 20 feet. At the Cape of Good Hope caves and beaches also prove recent and sensibly uniform emergence to the extent of about 20 feet.

Marine terraces, indicating similar emergence, are found along the Atlantic coast from New York to the Gulf of Mexico; for at least 1,000 miles along the coast of eastern Australia; along the coasts of Brazil, southwest Africa, and many islands in the Pacific, Atlantic, and Indian Oceans. The emergence is recent as well as of the same order of magnitude, (20 feet). Judging from the condition of beaches, terraces, and caves, the emergence seems to have been simultaneous on every shore. In (Daly's) opinion the cause lies in the sinking of the level of all seas on the globe. Alternatively, Daly thinks it could have resulted from a deepening of the oceans or from an increase in their areas. Of special interest is the time of the change. Daly estimated the sudden drop of oceanic level to (have occurred) some 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.

 

Article: <5ebbdt$u0@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 18 Feb 1997 04:33:01 GMT

JIM: Well, I should have included one more sentence: the lowering of the oceans is a natural side effect of the increase in global ice as a result of an ice age. So what's the mystery? An ice age happened.

NANCY: You omitted a key point in the quote I posted, Jim, that being that this sudden and uniform drop in the ocean level occurred approximately 3,500 years ago. We've had an ice age that descended upon the Earth, suddenly, 3,500 years ago and created enough ice to suck up 18 to 20 feet of sea water, worldwide? What ice was that, pray tell?

 

Article: <5e7odr$6u6@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 16 Feb 1997 19:50:19 GMT

NANCY: Just what is your explanation for the flash frozen mastodons and the sudden and unilateral drop in ocean levels?

JIM: Perhaps an iceage is also triggered by the impact, causing a longer term shift in the glacial coverage of the region and voilat, you have a preserved Mastadon.

NANCY: Siberia is in a temporary ice age? It's within the current polar region! The freezing occurred suddenly, so that one minute the region was temperate and the next polar. Only a pole shift with a shifting crust would account for that. Given the angle of the earth, the amount of sunlight the North Pole is receiving, how would grass and buttercups grow there under any conditions of atmospheric warmth? If the poles were that warm, what would the equator be experiencing? Does history tell us that all life at the equators was cooked, so that buttercups could grow at the poles?

Earth in Upheaval, pp 4-6, The Ivory Islands
Fossil tusks of the mammoth - an extinct elephant - were found in northern Siberia and brought southward to markets at a very early time. Northern Siberia provided more than half the world's supply of ivory, many piano keys and many billiard balls being made from the fossil tusks of mammoths. In 1797 the body of a mammoth, with flesh, skin, and hair, was found in northeastern Siberia. The flesh had the appearance of freshly frozen beef; it was edible, and wolves and sled dogs fed on it without harm. The ground must have been frozen ever since the day of their entombment; had it not been frozen, the bodies of the mammoths would have putrefied in a single summer, but they remained unspoiled for some thousands of years. In some mammoths, when discovered, even the eyeballs were still preserved. (All) this shows that the cold became suddenly extreme .. and knew no relenting afterward. In the stomachs and between the teeth of the mammoths were found plants and grasses that do not grow now in northern Siberia .. (but are) .. now found in southern Siberia.

 

Article: <5ebbcp$dt7@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 18 Feb 1997 04:32:25 GMT

JIM: Suddenly, like what would happen after an asteroid impact. The freezing doesn't have to take seconds or minutes. A day or a few is more than rapid enough to explain our unlucky mastodon. The global climate change takes hours or days to happen, and the iceage might lasts for thousands of years and the shift in the position of the glacial ice as it recedes would easily preserve the mastodon for much longer. Siberia is not in an iceage - but it is very cold there year round.

Not having addressed the issue of where 18-20 feet of water went during the last 4,000 years, or how grass could have grown in Siberia during this time frame, Jim has slide sideways into a discussion on Tunguska, a subject he as an astronomer feels on a strong footing, and hopefully, the Zetas and dumb Nancy on a weak footing.
Per the Zetas, it wasn't a meteor, it was a methane explosion, and the Zeta explanation fits the facts.
Recent studies by the Russians SINCE this sci.astro debate found NO meteor residue and the explosion in keeping with a gas explosion which they assumed to be a volcanic vent.

Article: <5e7ucn$c1d@sjx-ixn8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 16 Feb 1997 21:32:07 GMT

JIM: How would you explain the Tunguska event in Siberia in 1908? .. The more likely cause (and we are converging from all directions on this solution) is the impact of a 50 meter diameter stony asteroid.

ZETAS: A 50 meter asteroid that has yet to be uncovered? This was not an event that happened in the remote past, allowing soil to harden into rock so that exploration could not proceed. And what would have cause the trees to flatten outward, for miles, around the crater? The impact of a large falling object does not cause the atmosphere to blow outward with force to that extent. Trees might be jostled and be askew where the ground was jolted, but not flattened, and in particular, not flatted in an even outward pattern. This indicates an explosion.

 

Article: <5ebbf3$sld@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 18 Feb 1997 04:33:39 GMT

JIM: Yes, an explosion - one that looked just like a nuclear explosion, caused by the catastrophic disintegration of the 50 meter asteroid, by aerodynamic stresses as it plunged through about 8-10 kilometers altitude. ... The meteor remains have been tentatively identified as microscopic bits embedded in trees and in the soil - this small meteoroid was vaporized by the blast that it created.

ZETAS: At least we agree that it was an explosion. Please justify your explanation that the explosion was caused by a large meteor that vaporize as it positioned itself just above the ground level. The cause of this vaporization? Historical evidence that meteors vaporize just prior to impact? What type of instability would be inherent in a meteor, yet allow it to travel through space, experience extreme high heat upon entry into the Earth's atmosphere, yet arrive intact at the surface of the Earth where it would then explode? We await your explanation with baited breath! But we predict you'll fail to address our request for an explanation. Run and hide, Jim!

 

Article: <5ee4os$9up@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 19 Feb 1997 05:57:48 GMT

JIM: The descent of the meteor from space has it first start to see the atmosphere significantly up around 80-100 kilometers. It takes at most 10-20 seconds to drop into the bottom of the atmosphere and as it does, the aerodynamic forces build up very quickly until the forces exceed the strength of the body and it literally is torn apart in a fraction of a second. As it is torn apart, each of the smaller pieces is now presented to the aerodynamic forces and a cascade affect happens which releases its kinetic energy into an explosion.

ZETAS: All this is of course speculation, and not at all in line with what actually occurs. You have tiny meteors, which you call shooting stars, which burn up entirely in the atmosphere. Your own space junk, falling to Earth, tells you that solid items descending from space do not tear apart into tiny bits! What nonsense! Do your shuttles tear apart? Do your falling satellites tear apart? And even if solid items DO break apart at the weak link, do they disintegrate into infinitesimal pieces? They retain the structure of the pieces. Do meteors carry within them a self-destruct button, that when a tad of pressure is applied, all turns to dust in an explosive mixture? None of this has any basis in your experience, and you are reaching!

In fact, the only reason our explanation of a large pool of methane gas being released is resisted is due to the implication. Methane gas would not develop in Siberia, where the flash frozen carcasses of the Mastodons were found with grass and buttercups in their bellies, unless this part of the world were at least temperate at some point in the recent past. This implies a moving crust during a pole shift, a highly frightening thought! Rather than contemplate the frightening, Jim and other human scientists cling to positively absurd explanations. Anything but face the horrific truth! Run and hide, Jim!

And Jim ran and hid, leaving the debate!
In the face of Zeta logic, which cannot be refuted, those wishing to debunk the Zetas do not win.
But these arguments, that the Zetas explanation flies in the face of current human understanding or theory, is frequently posted as a REASON that ZetaTalk should not be taken seriously.

Forgeries and Plagarism

Not being able to beat the Zetas on logic, an early attempt at dissuading the public from taking ZetaTalk seriously was forgery.
Everyone claiming to be Nancy, or alternate channels claiming to be answering questions posed to the Zetas.
Here's an early example, from 1997.

Subject: Re: Have made contact with Zetans!!
Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 01:43:33 GMT Organization:
Netcom Message-ID: <3346fc2c.34205413@news.zippo.com>

MIKE: Hi all! I know that this is probably hard to believe, but I have made contact with the mighty Zeta Reticlulosis! Well, actually, it isn't me, exactly. It's my cat.

ZETAS: You are as an amoeba to us.

MIKE: Well, there you have it. Straight from the kitty's mouth, so to speak. The deal is, I seem to be able to reconnect to them any time I want, just by getting Blossom to chew on that cable, so if any of you have any questions to ask these ultra-smart space persons, just post 'em, and I'll be glad to pass them along! However, under the circumstances, I doubt that we can be 100% sure of their answers.

This is clearly a spoof, but other forgeries are dead serious.
Many Internet forgeries can be identified by carefully examining the header.
Most of the header is hidden on postings or email, but can be displayed.
It shows the true origin of the posting, the time zone, and other details.

Forgeries can be identified from the Subject and Organization. Some forgeries are trickier, but the heading of Usenet postings contains information that can identify a forgery from a legitimate posting under the hand of the ZetaTalk owner, Nancy Lieder. The ISP, PC type, Time Zone (-500 is EST), for instance. Such abuse of can and should be reported by the legitimate owner being forged.

When I was in San Francisco, posting on sci.astro and other Usenets, this poster claiming to be me was done from Madison, Wisconsin.
A fact that an examination of the header exposed.

Subject: I WAS WRONG: Zetas eating crow
Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:54:57 -0500
Message-ID: <32C2D811.36C1@ix.netcom.com>

ZETAS: Too all: After reading all of the incredibly lucid and informed responses to my posts, I have come to the conclusion that my opinions are truly bunk. I want everyone to know that I now see the error of my ways. The Zetans are wrong and all of you are right. Please accept my apology.

And from another posting.

Subject: PLANET X KOOL-AID PARTY - MAY 15TH, 2003
Organization: Cult Leader Of Idiots
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:26:08 -0500
Message-ID: <3de58d4a$0$1447$2c3e98f8@news.voyager.net>

You are are cordially invited to the "Planet X Kool-Aid" party on May 15th. As we look for Planet X to arrive and incarnate into hybrid bodies, refreshments and food will be available. The refreshments will consist of a special recipie of Kool-Aid and a sooper secret ingredient which will knock you out. The Reverend Jim Jones swears by it. The food will consist of pudding and apple sauce with another sooper secret ingredient which will help us incarnate into hybrid bodies by shedding our containers according to Marshall Applewhite. There will also be games where you can win pills which will paint the world black after you take them and a dunk tank filled with gasoline where participants will be throwing flaming balls at a target. The dunk tank game was invented by the genius David Koresh. All Zetas will attend and I hope you will join us.

Nancy Lieder

In 2002 The owners of the SkepticalMind web site also presented themselves on the web as ZetaTalk.
Forging postings is an illegal act, and since ZetaTalk is protected under a Trademark, this is frankly illegal from this standpoint.
Their ZetaTalk.NET and ZetaTalk.ORG sites are mirrors of the SkepticalMind.COM/zetatalk.html web site, and announced during a chat the intention of providing email addressed to debunkers.
This act would allow anyone to pose as someone associated with the ZetaTalk website!
My stance, on the Internet, to expose this intended operation, which to my knowledge then never actually occurred.
Perhaps the fact that it was frankly illegal put a crink in their plans.

It has come to my attention that the owner of SkepticalMind.COM has purchased domains:
ZetaTalk.ORG
ZetaTalk.NET

ZetaTalk is a Registered Trademark, so this is frankly illegal. And just what do you supposed is the intent of masters of the SkepticalMind site. Why would they desire to dress themselves as ZetaTalk, in the future? This has moved beyond an opinion, and into malicious forgery. If they can't win you with their arguments, then they will win you by fraud! Is this an admission by SkepticalMind that they have lost the argument? Been proven wrong? Are sore losers?

In 2004 Nancy was posting on the GodlikeProduction Message Board, whereupon several other Nancy Lieder's sprang up to claim legitimacy, even conducting Private Messaging under the name of Nancy Lieder of ZetaTalk.
Lately, in 2006, someone named Adam on the GodlikeProduction Message Board, claiming to be a Zeta contactee but one which does NOT preach gloom and doom.
In other words, no information about the pending pole shift, the big threat to the establishment, the big reason ZetaTalk is a targeted message.
Also, I might add, Adam had no prediction accuracy which is the hallmark of ZetaTalk.
But this type of maneuver, hardly new, is just another attempt to confuse the issue of WHO is the legitimate Emissary of the Zetas.
Not the first time someone claiming to be in contact with the Zetas tossed up a website and invited questions.

Those who are astute note that these wanna bees, claiming to channel or be in contact with the Zetas, never get attacked by the debunkers.
Why? Because they ARE a debunker, part of the team that is sent out to try to wrest the public from its fascination with the legitimate ZetaTalk.

http://godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?messageid=285728&showdate=9/5/06&display=30&page=3

The Zetas have been right from day one. Why do you think they receive such ferocious attention? Some people can't even go a day without commenting on them. I've seen people continually deny it but can't get themselves to ignore it. That speaks loud and clear about what this all means. There is even a new fraud placed here at GLP. Have you noticed those that absolutely despise Nancy have embraced the new fraud with loving arms? It's kind of like one of the Scifi channel movies, they couldn't get faker."The Zetas are just a figment of your imagination, but wait, this new guy is real. He has such a nice positive message. Gee, Nancy must be jealous." Doesn't that sum it up?

Here's an example of Adams message, and you note he is trying to claim legitimacy because he does NOT have a book or CD for sale.

ADAM: What the Zetas say about being Humble. My task is not to build fame for myself or sell CD's or write books or think of myself as a saint or humanities savior but to use the knowledge that has been shared with me to try and make a better place for everyone on this planet. The positive message of my Zeta Guide about humanities Golden Age with out all the doom and gloom of other messages should be a gift in and of itself.

This shows that Adam as spokeperson for the Zetas is probably being fielded from the same group that uses the debunking argument that Nancy is only in it for the money.
This because I put the Zeta message into a paperback in 1998, on request I might add from the public who wanted something they could carry about and give to friends, packaged the Gulf Breeze MUFON lecture into a video, for those who might be interested in such a quick way to get an overview of the Zeta message, and packaged the 2005 audio lecture series done on Blog radio for those who wanted a fast track to listening to these lectures!
All the information in the paperback or video is available for FREE from the ZetaTalk website, and running the ZetaTalk operation is a net loss, given the rate of sales and the monthly outgo required to keep the website up, and given NO commercial adds on the website providing income to Nancy whatsoever.
The losses run into the thousands, with no hope of profit.
So much for the debunker theme that Nancy is in it for the money.

The most dramatic attempt at forgery was plagiarism going into 2003 by the author of a book called Blindsided 2003.
Descriptions of the pole shift, in exacting detail, were lifted whole from the ZetaTalk website and plopped into the book.
Those behind this plagarism were expecting to make money on the matter, and gave the author, Mark Hazelwood, a lot of support on the Internet.
But where is he now? Faded from view.
Here's what the Zetas had to say about the intentions behind this scam, which had a financial basis.

ZETAS: Hazlewood is the type of person we have been warning about, during our various self-help suggestions, who will front as someone concerned about your welfare, while stripping you of self-help options and taking your resources. Why does he do this? He has correctly analyzed the situation, along with others of a like mind, and concluded that the hose of money that can be pointed at them due to horrendous anxiety over earth changes and the honesty of politicians over the real truth of the matter can be turned on them. Huge profits, in the months leading into the shift, to pad their own comfort. His history is clear, his methods clear, but con artists flourish worldwide and throughout time due to their ability to size up the touch, and say just what is needed to open pocket books. As we have stated, rely on your self, those you know and have know for years, and not potentially empty promises.

A key motive behind forgery or plagarism or supposed contactees of the Zetas willing to answer questions it to take away the stage from ZetaTalk when the serious Earth changes begin.
But these attempts never seem to win, and ZetaTalk prevails.

Distractions and Insults

Other debunking techniques have as their basis ridicule or an attempt to make people uncomfortable with even reading ZetaTalk.
An early approach was to claim it was a cult, and to point to cults such as the Heaven's Gate cult that killed themselves when comet Hale Bopp arrived as an example of where ZetaTalk might be leading.
Here's a discussion on the Usenets in 1997 on that issue.

Article: <5htrcp$6ii@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Subject: NANCY and Suicide Cults - NOT
Date: 2 Apr 1997 14:44:41 GMT

WILLIAM: the kind of crap which has been associated with the deaths of 38 gullible people and their lunatic leader.

NANCY:
1. the Heaven's Gate crowd was looking to be spirited away and castrate themselves 20 years before I ever discovered the net
2. folks like Shramek and Art Bell are the ones who associated aliens with Hale-Bopp, not me
3. the noise about the purported gigantic size of Hale-Bopp was made by NASA and JPL
I'd like to point out that:
ZetaTalk DOES NOT advocate looking to be rescued by aliens. Quite the opposite, they stress that the Earth and human society are in human hands, and that humans hoping to be rescued are remaining spiritually infantile, children.
ZetaTalk also DOES NOT advocate denial of sexuality.
ZetaTalk DOES NOT describe rigid, emotionless, highly structured lives as being a higher plateau. Quite the opposite. ZetaTalk would consider a rule oriented society like Heaven's Gate to be leaning to the Service-to-Self, not Service-to-Other.
ZetaTalk DOES NOT advocate giving up in despair when learning about coming earth changes. The ZetaTalk pages point to the Troubled Times pages in dozens of spots, leading folks who read about the coming pole shift to practical solutions for their safety and quality of life concerns.

Beyond those arguments, a cult takes money or services from its members, who are isolated and encouraged NOT to think independently.
ZetaTalk seeks to empower the public with information, which it gives out for free, and states repeatedly that people should determine for themselves what the facts are and come to their own conclusions.
The opposite of what cults seek to impose.
Thus, the early debunking approach to claim ZetaTalk a cult failed, and has faded away.

Another favorite debunk is in fact a distraction, which I call the dead dog distraction.
One can hardly find a recent posting about ZetaTalk where the dead dog issue does not come up.
The basis of this distraction is a live radio show in LA, morning radio where brevity is the rule as the whole interview takes about 20 minutes.
A caller asked about what one should do with pets, during the pole shift, as starvation was to be an issue afterwards.
Zeta answer, put them to sleep unless you want to watch them starve.
I, Nancy, stated that I had recently put an 18 month old German Shepherd to sleep, and felt this was not being cruel to a pet to do so.
Apparently, the debunkers assume that the public would be SO offended at this statement that ZetaTalk itself would be put to dead.
Nothing of the sort has happened, but the life of this dead dog is astonishing.
During an interview on WakeupUSA in 2004, 3 of 26 questions posed were about the dead dog issue.

CALLER: Why did you kill your dog?

NANCY: Actually, ZetaTalk has been the subject of a great disinformation campaign, a hate campaign, every since it emerged in 1995 people have either loved it or hated it, and that's run about 50/50, my email runs like that. And there's been many organized campaigns to try to discredit ZetaTalk. It has an extremely high accuracy track record. This is one of the reasons for its success. I have never spammed email, gone out and promoted myself, called up and said 'oh please, please, have me on your show'. It has come to me. This is a bit astonishing because it is know around the world, there are very few countries I don't get email from. I hear that I've appeared in magazines in Australia or Germany. All that translation on my website is done by volunteers. This is because people say it has the ring of truth, brings things together, gives explanations to puzzles, and is so logical. So therefore, it's highly popular. It is giving out a message that the establishment, the people who are the bankers, the heads of government, organized religion, don't want you to hear. That we are going to have cataclysmic changes in our near future. That the governments know about this and are not informing you. That the alien presence is real and this is not something you need to fear and here's how you work with it, you are in control. These are messages they don't want out, so therefore there's a campaign to smear me, and smear ZetaTalk. One of them is the silliest thing.

I had a German Shepherd pup that I put to sleep at 18 months at the advice of the vet because he had been under socialized in the kennel and he was likely to attack people. He was already diving through windows when children rode by on their bikes. We were terrified he was going to bite a child. Someone asked me on live radio what the Zetas recommendation would be for people who had pets going into a pole shift. Starvation is expected to be rampant. 90% of the population is expected to die, not just from starvation, from injury, illness, depression, but starvation will be rampant. And their answer was, how are you going to feed that pet when your neighbor's child is starving? So our recommendation is, when you see the pole shift coming, and its imminent and there's no question, take it to the vet and put it to sleep. It's painless. Otherwise you're going to be starving your pet, if that's your choice, fine. And that got twisted around to Nancy Lieder the puppy killer. I kid you not, and that's my answer. It is a serious problem, and particularly with dogs, and that's not the reason we put this dog to sleep. He slept with us and ate at our table and sat on my lap, all 120 lbs of him, and watched TV, and we cried and he died in my arms, but he was going to bite somebody and probably a child and we just couldn't have it.

Another distraction attempt is to use the same old arguments, over and over, as though they had never been answered.
Day after day, year after year, the same cut and paste arguments are posted on any discussion involving ZetaTalk, hoping to dissuade any newcomer from reading further or taking the ZetaTalk message seriously.
Primarily, they attempt to scoup every prediction the Zetas have made into a May 15, 2003 date.
This is the SOLE prediction made by the Zetas that did not come true, that the pole shift would happen 'shortly after May 15, 2003.
The reason, as openly stated by the Zetas when the date came and went, was to push Bush and the Neocons to make their move early, invading Iraq to have the US Military sitting on the oil fields when the pole shift occurred.
The Zeta explanation for their White Lie

ZetaTalk: White Lie, written May 23, 2003

At a time when Planet X is so close as to be competing with the Sun at noon, visible by the unaided eye, and well tracked to this point by many sunrise and sunset sightings and photos, in the manner and in the time frame we predicted, and at a time when earthquakes have increased to the point, as we predicted, to being noticeable, affecting population centers so they cannot be denied by underreporting in the quake databases, the bad dates stand as an exception. And what is the effect of this gambit, an acknowledged white lie on our part?

The effect was to expose the cover-up, but primarily to push Bush into Iraq early, a frantic effort in Mar-Apr 2003.
Thus, their attempts to commandeer all the oil fields of the world, the primary fields in Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia, is on the ropes, failing, when the pole shift is still before us.
This, all due to the White Lie by the Zetas.
Here's what happened leading into that missed date, showing that the government took ZetaTalk seriously, and did not intent to inform the public about a pending passage!
Shortly before May 15, 2003 Operation TOPOFF was initiated to involve Seattle, Chicago, and Washington DC and over 100 agencies, including Canadian participation.
This was the largest TOPOFF exercise ever, before and after that 2003 exercise.
And Operation Planet X was run on May 15 in Iraq.
The week following May 16, 2003: Homeland Security went to level Orange, with no other excuse than recent attacks in other countries, though these attacks were not unusual.
Level Red, wherein citizens can be ordered to remain in their homes, was the next step.
So that's the record.
But the cut and paste attempt to confuse the public about this issue includes wrapping EVERY prediction the Zetas made about what is to occur during the pole shift as a FAILED prediction!
Well the pole shift hasn't happened yet!
Here's the recent cut and paste, going around in 2006 by determined debunkers.

Here Nancy - Consider your record:
Crop failures
Imploding cities
Islands sinking with their population
Oceans inundate coastal cities
Refugee camps set up
Hundreds of volcanoes erupting
Increased Earthquakes
Worldwide economic depression
Worldwide barter system
Price controls instituted
Satellites flying out of orbit and malfunctioning
Telecommunications almost completely disrupted
Red Dust covering everything
Australia submerged
Mag 15 earthquakes
An hail of meteorites and other debris creating worldwide firestorms

Well, that's describing the pole shift, which hasn't happened yet!
Of course, the public is never directed to the page on the website where this issue is addressed, and answered.
This, they don't want the public to know about!

So have all these debunking maneuvers succeeded?
You be the judge!
But here's a clue.
If you're listening to this broadcast, then they have NOT succeeded!